OK, maybe “Listing Syndication War” is a little too sensationalistic.
Maybe.
There’s no question though that news about real estate listing syndication is now coming at a fast and furious pace.
Back in November, Edina Realty lobbed the first round when they announced they were pulling their listings from Trulia and Realtor.com
Then a couple of weeks ago it was Jim Abbott and ARG Abbott Realty Group in San Diego doing the same, and adding Zillow into the mix.
Yesterday Metrolist, the Denver, Colorado area MLS announced they were not renewing their contact with leading IDX supplier Diverse Solutions, which was recently acquired by Zillow.
And today brings the announcement that Sandicor, the San Diego area MLS is making significant changes to what they will be feeding listing syndication sites.
Take a moment to go read Lily Leung’s article in the San Diego Union Trbune Business section, San Diego MLS turns table on Zillow, Trulia.
Here are some highlights:
Sandicor, the county’s MLS, has added a text field to its listings that allows members to enter contact information, including names, email addresses and brokerage websites. The information, along with the usual listing data, would be disseminated by syndication websites such as ListHub and Point2 Agent, which are sources of information for popular real estate sites.
The main idea is that the contact information in the extra field would be displayed prominently for home hunters to see, nixing any confusion over the listing agent and an agent who is advertising on Trulia or Zillow.
Further…
Soon, the company will decrease the number of photos that can go out to syndicators to four, down from the maximum of 25. Another upcoming change: Images sent out to outside parties will bear watermarked contact information of the listing agents.
Well howdy doody! To my knowledge this this is the first time a Multiple Listing Service has taken steps to — what many will argue — take back some semblance of control over listing data.
Good move? Bad? Meh?
Must. Ponder. Implications. Further.
My immediate thought in reading what Sandicor was doing was, “Interesting!” Followed immediately by, “I wonder if other MLS’s will follow suit?”
It wouldn’t surprise me if they do.
Personally, and this is coming from someone who is obviously “pro syndication”, I like the idea. Or at least parts of it.
While I am not one to believe that we need to wrest all control and display of listing data away from third-party sites, I don’t see anything wrong with including additional information about the listing brokerage. BUT, if you are a home buyer, think about why you’d want to work with the home seller’s agent. The seller’s agent has THEIR best interest in mind, not yours. If you are buying a home, work with a buyer’s agent that will have YOUR best interests in mind..
Reducing the number of photos? Well, there is zero question in my mind that potential home buyers searching for home online like to see listing photos. Generally speaking, the more the merrier. (Though seriously people, it is quality not quantity that matters when it comes to photos. Maybe we could cease & desist uploading photos of toilets? Particularly those images with the seat up?) I’m speculating that Sandicor feels limiting the number of photos displayed on third party sites will drive those photo-seeking visitors back to the local agent/broker site (or, in the case of Sandicor and a handful of other MLS’s, to their public-facing MLS site).
Only time will tell how or if that pans out. Personally, I think it’s more likely to frustrate home searchers. Why make them hunt around for photos? Oh, that’s right. To capture them as a lead. ::sigh::
In the mean time, it is going to be very interesting to see if other MLS’s step forward and make an effort to better highlight the listing agent on third party sites, how this additional info (along with fewer photos) might impact the sale of advertising on third party sites, and what the next salvo will be that is fired in the Syndication War.
What are your thoughts?
More info: Sandicor’s formal announcement.
The Phoenix Real Estate Guy was started by Jay Thompson, and I have a little blogging problem... he liked to say...
@calgaryrealtor I wouldn’t be surprised if others follow…
@PhxREguy I suspect you’ll see the floodgates open within 6 weeks
Hi Jay,
Great article, did you see this press release today from Northeast Florida – http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Important-Message-for-Broker-Members-of-Northeast-Florida-MLS–Inc-.html?soid=1101387134735&aid=P2ERxwD6ZAk
They are taking a rather interesting approach where the MLS is going to stop syndicating but allow the brokers to make their own decisions. We’ll see what happens!
@MelissaMcHone Hadn’t seen that Melissa. Thanks for sharing! It really should be the broker’s decision (made in consult with their sellers). Our MLS uses ListHub…
@Jay Thompson I really like ListHub they do a great job! I also liked how the NEFMLS put the decision into the hands of their brokers, they are after all the curators of the data!
Thanks for the update Jay. For the record, my MLS (Santa Barbara, CA) is also leaning toward not renewing their contract with Diverse Solutions. Actually, they already voted not to renew but there are people fighting it so as far as I can tell it isn’t a done deal yet. This is all getting very interesting!
@Stephanie Young has anyone said WHY they wouldn’t renew the DS contract? Because they are owned by Zillow?? So what? I don’t get it…. MLS’s should be *helping* their members, not handcuffing them by restricting the tools they can use.
@Jay Thompson @Stephanie Young I don’t get it either. Why would an MLS board cut-off DS — to the detriment of it’s paying agents – because it doesn’t like Zillow? If a broker has an issue with Zillow, then it should just withhold its listings. If an MLS has issues with Zillow, then cutoff syndication and make brokers do this manually. What the f does this have to do with providing IDX services? It makes absolutely no sense.
@Jay Thompson @Stephanie Young I think this has something to do with the contract for the feed itself. Where I am lacking in understanding is how Zillow gets its feed. I believe there’s a difference, and if that’s the case, is there some interest on the part of the MLS to protect what they provide to DS that is not provided to Zillow?
@Jay Thompson @Stephanie Young I suspect it runs a whole lot deeper than guilty by association. Take this quote out of Denver: “Services are not assignable, which means that Diverse Solutions can not just assign a contract to Zillow.” I think we might be able to read something between the lines there. Or maybe not. Will definitely be interesting how all this stuff plays out, though.
@KrisBerg @Stephanie Young Kris – as an aside, how do you, a Sandicor member, feel about Sandicor’s move?
Never mind @KrisBerg , saw your other comment…
@Jay Thompson @KrisBerg Did my own post on the matter too. I think it’s pretty slick.
@KrisBerg Well of course you did! How lazy of me to not look first. For the benefit of others, here’s Kris’ take: http://sandiegocastles.com/sandiegohomeblog/sandicor-fires-a-shot-across-the-third-party-syndication-bow/
@Jay Thompson What a guy linking to little ol’ me! 🙂
@Stephanie Young That is completely ridiculous to take the premier IDX solution and black list them due to ownership ownership.
@Stephanie Young I assume you’ve seen the quote, from Laurel Abbott — “The (Diverse Solutions IDX) product is actually a fine product, it’s just that they sold to Zillow,” said Laurel Abbott, the association’s president-elect and a board member. Abbott is also chair of the association’s multiple listing service committee.” (source, Inman News)
Wow.
@Jay Thompson @Stephanie Young Yes, I’m very much aware of it. I read somewhere (but can’t find it now) that Ricardo said Metrolist is the only one that isn’t renewing their contract. That isn’t true, which is one reason why I spoke up about my MLS’s decision not to renew. Right or wrong, I feel that people should know the truth about who is and isn’t renewing, and that it wasn’t just Metrolist. My MLS resisted moving to a statewide MLS in California, and I applaud them for that because there is no way someone who is 300 miles away from my town and has never been there can be an expert in the area and provide reasonable care and skill to a buyer or seller in Santa Barbara. People want to sell homes here because the prices are high, and they would rather handle the transaction themselves and take the whole commission rather than refer it to an expert in the area. That isn’t good for the consumer. That’s a whole other topic but my point is that my MLS took a stand in that case and now they are taking a stand against Zillow.
I think this is an excellent and intelligent (if not brillliant) step on the part of Sandicor. Like you, I believe syndication can be a great benefit for our sellers–and this move allows agents to respond to queries about their listings. Wondering, though, how this will impact advertising sales for Zillow and Trulia?
@RobertaMurphy I agree. I think this is rather creative and very bold, but mainly from the standpoint of crimping the fire hose with limited pictures. It remains to be seen how the advertising remarks will be portrayed on TruZillia. I have this sneaking suspicion they will be about as prominent as the listing office information is now. This will indeed be an interesting year.
I think you are right @KrisBerg . An easy to miss sentence in the SDUT article:
“Whether the companies pull in the new data is up to them, Ewing said.” (Ewing being the Sandicor CEO).
The way I read that, TruZilla could simply say, “Huh, new information. Oh well, we’re not reformatting pages to include THAT….”
@Jay Thompson @KrisBerg I’m pretty sure that the new “Advertising comments” field will run in tandem with the old one for a few weeks and then the new field will be the only one in the 3rd party feed
Yes, it’s because of Zillow. And I agree that is not a good enough reason, thus the fighting. I’m on the side that believes they should not discontinue and force everyone to recreate their websites.
Ok I get it Syndication should be good for the Seller BUT Realtor.com already posts all the available listings [inCanada] I don’t feel that the aggregators add any value of their own other than selling leads and advertising space to related industry.
What specifically do they contribute as added value?
David Pylyp
Watching from Toronto Canada
Hi Jay – Brad from Zillow here. I agree with your comment regarding photos, no limit to the amount of photos on Zillow, (including toilets) but I also wanted to mention that for those who aren’t quite sure how Zillow works with the Listing Agents, Greg wrote a post that explains it in detail, hope you don’t mind me adding the URL: http://www.zillow.com/blog/2012-02-03/how-zillow-works-with-listing-agents/
Oops… I hit the post comment too soon!! lol~ People seem to be making this into a controversy that’s not there. We primarily think about serving the consumers and agents. No controversy here. As it pertains to Zillow, the listing agent is always clearly identified– and with a free profile, (with a correct email address), is always in the first position of a listing.
@BradAndersohn You might consider reading my last post. Being sited as the listed agent is far from guaranteed. Honestly, that appears to be easily circumvented and I’m not sure who is responsible, if anyone other than the agent, for monitoring that particular feature.
@BradAndersohn > We have a team of compliance experts and technologists working hard to provide a higher-quality listing search experience and are committed to delivering accurate, up-to-date listings drawn from definitive sources.
Perhaps it might be worth eliminating non-syndication delivered listings or finding another workaround … the data, at least here in Phoenix, is remarkably inaccurate, Brad.
@BradAndersohn says, “As it pertains to Zillow, the listing agent is always clearly identified– and with a free profile, (with a correct email address), is always in the first position of a listing.” By chance, Brad, did you hit the post comment too soon on this comment as well? On ZERO property profile pages at Zillow am I “clearly” identified as the listing agent. In fact, I’m not even mentioned at all.
@MikePayne Hey Mike – would love to help you with that. There are a couple easy things to check. Is your profile email address on Zillow the same as the feed source coming to the site? Another possibility is that you may have more than one profile setup by mistake? A third option and my suggestion would be to contact listing support at zillow dot com and let them help and sort it out for you. You’ll find that they are a great group of fun loving folks who want to help you out if they can. If none of those options meet your expectations, feel free to call me directly and I’ll do my best to figure out your issue. Hope this will help you out. Thanks~ 🙂
@BradAndersohn Ohhh…. Brad. I hope your shareholders don’t hear this => “We primarily think about serving the consumers and agents.” You’ll never get back to $60/share with that attitude.
Short zillow. They are being disintermediated. (Turnabout is fair play.)
Hmm. That IS interesting. I decided to dip my own toe into the brouhaha. My take is that we need to step up our game at Realtor.com to overtake Z&T. http://www.nestinginnashville.com/on-the-home-listing-syndication-debate/
Wow. great post Jay. This is going to be a helluva a year. We are very much in the early rounds of this listing data conflagration. I just hope that the decisions that are being made and will be made are pro-consumer and pro-competition, as opposed to protecting turf or wishing the past were the future.
Mr. Barton does not exclude the possibility that the role of the agent, and his site, may change.
“People want Realtors,” he said. “But is it rational to pay Realtors what they are paid?” He says he thinks they are overpaid because customers are doing more of the work themselves.
From this 2006 article, http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/08/business/08real.html?ex=1297054800&en=5892d422b169a166&ei=5090
@john3 In all fairness, perhaps Rich has changed his tune over the last six years? Or perhaps not, who knows. His role at Zillow has changed though… It will be interesting to see what Barton and some other founders do once their stock in Z fully vests…
I am interested to see if Sandicor can really pull traffic or if this will just drive more consumers to Redfin which we all know has a killer interface. While I understand the reasoning for their approach, I feel like they are underestimating the innovation and usability some of these sites have.
I feel like we’re taking some HUGE steps backwards in terms of attempting to recapture the prized keys to the Listing Kingdom of Data that really aren’t ours to begin with. We’ve been making such amazing strides/progress in transparency and ensuring that data is easily accessible for consumers.
I feel an unraveling here that is significant. I think this is the tip of the iceberg and I’m having a hard time envisioning the future. I think the syndication questions will leak into the IDX questions, and the Zillow ownership of Diverse Solutions while actually may be benign, may complicate the matter significantly. As I’ve stated on my own site, I am a huge fan of those syndication sites siting me as the listing agent, although I’m no fan of dual agency. I don’t think that my interest in those inquiries immediately implies that I’m a fan of dual agency, but I do want the opportunity to ‘sell’ my listings.
I guess I’m a bit surprised that this is going in the direction that it is with regard to the MLS. Sandicor takes a stand that is interesting. It’s not the broker in this case. And while Sandicor seems interested in taking the approach HAR has taken in the desire to be THE consumer resource in their area, I think that will ultimately have it’s own consequences. That may be fine for the boutique brokers in the area, but I’m not sure that model will work for brokers with sizable market share. They are no more interested in competing with Sandicor, than they are with Zillow.
I think this will be a year that will see a tremendous number of changes in syndication, IDX, and control of data. I guess, as a small broker, I’m wondering what how this plays out for me and how to position myself. No question, the landscape of 2013 will be very different.
@linsey It’s looking like it going to be a wild ride Lindsey!
Hi Jay,
I think any business, including real estate brokers, who produce proprietary information (i.e. listing data) have the right to control how it’s accessed, displayed and offered to the general public.
The Internet (especially after the advent of Craigslist) has reduced the value real estate agents offer consumers.
I applaud Sandicor and other brokers/MLS who’ve decided in order to RE-establish our value proposition to the consumer, we must make listing information proprietary and exclusive.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with the move Sandicor and Edina Realty made.
@MyBklynReport I think our value proposition to the consumer FAR exceeds listing data. Far. I wrote about that very subject a couple of days ago: http://www.phoenixrealestateguy.com/on-the-value-add-of-a-real-estate-agent/
@Jay [email protected] Jay, I wasn’t questioning the value we bring as practitioners. I was positing how that value is viewed by the consumer since the advent of Craigslist and the (supposed) importance of broad exposure at the expense of a broker’s value proposition.
I think if we’re honest about how real estate information is consumed on these sites, you’ll agree that a broker’s value is diminished.
I used to advertise a majority of my listings on a one of the top three mentioned here until I saw I was getting customer leads on other broker’s listings.
or how many out-of-area agents begin dispensing advice on locations they haven’t got a clue about only to win a buyer customer to shop in a new territory.
Agents are in business, first. And our marketing (beginning with the listing data) is where we begin our presentation to convince and convert prospects into clients and customers.
I wrote a post on this subject as well back in 2009 and hope you’ll get a chance to check out at http://mybrooklynreport.com/internet-marketing-brooklyn-real-estate-listings/ and glad to see Agents taking a second look at what these sites offer and at what price to their business.
Proactive agents will simply syndicate listings manually via another interface like Point2. That’s how we did it before our MLS contracted with ListHub. Who ever said that the MLS was supposed to syndicate our listings for us?
I would also assert that efforts by brokers to be the contact for the listed homes is actually advocacy on behalf of the seller in many cases. The seller hired me to sell their home. They prefer that I get my own buyer for many reasons. In my state, I can still fully represent the seller and have the buyer as a customer. This serves the person who hired me to be their advocate. And since all buyers in my market have a lawyer representing them also, the idea that this is a lamb led to slaughter is fallacious.
@J Philip Faranda How does reducing the number of photos help your seller? As for the dual agency argument being fallacious, that may well be true in your state. In my state if I bring the buyer for my listing, my client has to sign a document agreeing to limited representation. They hired me for full, not limited representation.
@Jay Thompson If the listing is not the feed from Sandicor but from a manually uploaded source the agent uses like Point2, then there shouldn’t be a limit to the number of photos. 4 photos is only if you opt into the association feed for your listings. If an agent feels the association feed is inadequate, then they can upload through another platform. We used VLS homes to syndicate years before our MLS had the automatic feature.
If your state laws do not allow a client -seller /customer -buyer I understand your frame of reference, but I am not sure how they do it in California. That would tell us a lot.
@J Philip Faranda @Jay Thompson An attorney representing a customer buyer steps into the transaction way past the offer being put in and the inspection issues resolved all to the sellers benefit in your scenario. The fairness to buyers comes in how?
@[email protected] Thompson You make it sound like an attorney doesn’t make a difference. They make a huge difference, and nothing gets signed until the attorney looks over everything. The inspection being resolved to the advantage of the seller is pure conjecture- I see sellers taking a bath from inspections in many cases. The attorney not being involved until after the inspection is cast in stone either. We send memos out as soon as there is an accepted offer and that is before inspections.
@MiriamBernstein Who’s presuming inspection issues resolved to seller’s benefit? In Florida, “transaction broker” agency allows me to represent the transaction. On a short sale, for instance, I most definitely defend benefits of buyer going (and working with) listing agent. I don’t pretend to know or care about agency in other states. However, in Florida, a buyer’s agent relies on (and depends on) a listing agent’s information. Buyer’s agent brings buyer to the table and then sits back, hoping that seller truly suffers “documented financial hardship,” that seller intends to contribute to closing or sign promissory, etc. With inspection issues, an inspection report goes to buyer who picked his/her/their inspector either from a list I provide or from their own research. Since short sales are AS-IS, buyer either proceeds with purchase, cancels or takes chance with lender providing credit for issues. Rarely in my experience of 130+ short sales but it has happened. Providing “transaction brokerage” service calls for a little common sense, understanding of agency & greed dismissal. .
@MikePayne Mike, we are talking about New York and Phil is advocating buyers not having representation in a transaction. He is stating that he represents a seller and since the buyer customer does not have an agent or someone to advise them on inspection issues certain things will be to the sellers benefit. His buyer customers go without advice from an agent on price. Florida is a different world in terms of agency.
So it is just the price that is negotiated without the buyer having an advocate — and the attorney’s you use negotiate your inspections? Was never the case with me a lawyer may step in on certain issues but you are being paid to do the brokerage, an attorney is being paid to do the contract not the brokerage.
@MiriamBernstein – Thanks, Miriam. Nowhere did I see reference to New York. At any rate, if I were a consumer stumbling onto this post I’d be so damn confused about now on what’s the brouhaha that I might just click away in disgust with “those greedy real estate people.” Hmm, makes me think once again that the CONSUMER’s interest seems not to be valued in this unfolding unilateral decision-making. Seems to be what’s in best interest of agent/broker, private MLS’s or syndicators.
@MikePayne I think you are right
@MiriamBernstein @MikePayne NO Miriam, I don’t advocate buyers not having representation. You are putting words in my mouth. MY point was pretty clear: the listing agent works for the seller in New York, and that is where their advocacy lies. I said the following: In my state, I can still fully represent the seller and have the buyer as a customer. *This serves the person who hired me to be their advocate.*
If you want to discuss the matter from the buyer’s prospective that is a different discussion.
@MikePayne MIke, my point spoke to the seller’s interests, since the argument for syndication is that it helps the seller via exposure, which is compelling. There are two consumers in a transaction, and the seller seems to not be discussed outside of exposure, and the dual agency angle, especially in my state of New York, is far more nuanced than many other states.
@J Philip Faranda @MikePayne Not sure New York is more nuanced as Louisiana has the same scenario.
@J Philip Faranda @MikePayne Not sure it is true that New York is more nuanced, Louisiana is the same. Dual agency and customer buyers are both limited representation and in fact customer buyers are no representation. Advocacy for the seller would be having a buyer represented.
As an agent who works predominantly with buyers, I find that consumers seem confused by the amount of redundant, yet slightly different, listing information out there. While my customers and clients used to fully trust the listings that met their criteria sent to them directly from the MLS that I set up for them, now they question that “clean” data, not only comparing it to the big 3 syndicators but every other place on the web they can find it. I often find myself defending the straight MLS information.The most interesting part of the 2012 syndication wars will be observing how consumers deal with it. Whom will they trust?
@joemspake My favorite is when a buyer client has “I found this home on zillow, it wasn’t in the homes you’ve been sending me.” This confuses buyers and may make them suspicious that I’m playing games with them somehow.
So I explain that that home on zillow has a contract on it and I only sending you homes that do not already have a contract on them. If you would like to see homes that already have contracts on them, I would be happy to set that up for you but are you willing to but in backup offers? No.
Two weeks later. “I found this home on zillow that wasn’t in what you have sent me that I would like to see.”
@john3 @joemspake Wouldn’t this happen without Zillow in the mix? I’m sure we’ve all been driving buyers around and hear from the back seat, “Hey! What about that one? It’s not on my list and has a sign in the yard. It looks perfect! Why isn’t it on my list???”
“Well, you see, that home has two stories. You told me, ‘I hate two story homes. I only want to see single story properties’.”
“But that one looks perfect! Can we see it?”
@Jay Thompson @john3 My dialogues run more like: “Well, homecranker.com says it’s still available.”
“MLS says it closed on the 21st of last month.”
“Can you double check with the agent? I really love that house. It’s perfect for us.”
homecranker.com. That’s freaking funny @joemspake ! And that URL is available too… 😉
@Jay Thompson @joemspake Um…not anymore it isn’t! LOL
@J Philip Faranda @Jay Thompson A new syndicator on the scene?
@Jay Thompson @john3 @joemspake Huge difference between a home showing online as available when it’s sold and a sign sitting in the yard; far more eyes are drawn to the inaccurate data than a sign post.
@Jay Thompson @john3 @joemspake That’s so true. And why I really like the new mobile version of flexMLS. “Well, I can pull over and check it…. It’ $100,000 more than your max price and it’s in escrow.” Those questions are always a good sign to me that I didn’t explain the system to my clients well when we first met, probably skipped that first in-office meeting where I explain the home buying process in Arizona.
@john3 @joemspake Exactly- Zillow, Trulia et al have actually convinced people that their corrupted data is better than our source data. For this reason alone, we need to cut them off at the knees.
Wow. Somebody somewhere “Is mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore”. Check the big boy franchises who are rumbling about pulling out of MLS’s. We already know the terrible squeeze on brokerage profits and how “bricks and mortar” and the old brokerage model isn’t working well in real estate anymore. As others have mentioned, this looks like the beginning of a very interesting year/transition. Or at least until the lawsuits start.
That’s all I hear about is this nonsense of people fighting the syndication. I want my listing to be everywhere and don’t care if an alien sells my listing or anyone advertises it provided the content is correct. The bottom line is to sell the property. Stop the madness.
@Bill Iannelli Do you put your listings up on Craigslist? Do you advertise in the Thrifty Nickle and the Flea Market? Would you consider paying a stoner teen to rock out to a corrugated plastic guitar in the shape of your new listing at the local off ramps? Then your listing isn’t everywhere. You’re Welcome.
It’s funny … I completely forgot DS was bought by Zillow until this post. That shows you what a gigantic difference that sale has made in the way DS performs and works with agents.
Until I have the stomach to write about this on my own blog, I pose this question …
Why are we as an industry so apologetic about trying to generate business? If we believe a buyer is better suited having an agent of their own, then why do we spend so much time wringing our hands about trying to drive those buyers toward agent and broker sites where they can find that independent buyer broker rather than taking their chances with iffy data on Truzilia?
It’s not as if there’s any real monopoly on the data; all someone needs is Google and they can find listings for just about any place in the country. Hell, I can find homes for sale in Orderville, Utah without trying too hard. Have you ever been to Orderville? I have. And if you can find homes online there, you pretty much can do it anywhere.
I think listing agents should have the ability to maintain control of their listings. If a potential buyer contacts them direct, great. It’s our job as buyer representatives to educated our clients, not the other way around.
FYI, just now got a call from a real estate agent calling on a home I had listed in 2008. “No, I don’t have the listing. Is it for sale again?” He says, “No, I can’t find it in the MLS but my client insists that it just went back on the market because he found it on zillow or something. He’s driving me crazy.”
I think his client thinks “zestimate” means list price.
@john3 I have had this very thing happen more times than I care to remember. There’s a major problem with the data on the syndicator sites.
Speaking of which, have you ever heard anyone say, “Hey, what’s the zestimate(tm) on that house?” Never!
Hey Zillow, English is a great language, use it.
How about “Zillow Computerized Estimate of Current House Value” or “Zillow’s Estimated Value.”
It’s as if Zillow is intentionally trying to mislead or confuse people by using nonsense words.
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What is a Good Real Estate Investment?
http://www.eplusrealestate.com/2012/01/what-is-good-real-estate-investment.html?
Jay –
This will inevitably lead to the snowball effect, with other MLS members jumping on the bandwagon. The reality is I pay to be a Realtor, I pay MLS dues, I take Continuing Education, I invest my hard earned dollars for marketing and brand recognition, I work long hours to build relationships with clients gained from my marketing dollars, and let me get this right… Zillow and Trulia take MY efforts (in the form of listings) re-package it on their website, and present it back to the consumer as their own??? (in turn, netting enough revenue through advertising dollars to be listed as a publicly traded company).
Hmm…. who is getting screwed here? If Realtors do not protect their own data, then shame on us.
And they’ll sell you back any poor consumer who sends in an email as a lead.
What’s somewhat surprising is all the discussion is about the syndication/Trulia/Zillow side of things and less about Sandicor canceling its contract with DS. That, to my mind, is much more ominous. And that’s what I ended up focusing on in my own way-too-long thoughts on my own site. http://bit.ly/xFJ1xA
Hey @JonathanDalton , Ricardo Bueno here from Diverse Solutions… I just want to set the record straight and confirm that Sandicor is most certainly NOT cancelling their contract with Diverse Solutions. We have a signed letter from their CEO as of November 22, 2011 (just after our acquisition) that successfully updated our IDX agreement with them.
@Ricardo Bueno Got your call and fixed the error on my site; I did, in fact, confuse Sandicor and Santa Barbara in the midst of my general outrage.
Thanks, Ricardo!
@JonathanDalton – No worries, sorry about that. Like I said, just wanted to get the facts straight. Thanks for being a good sport Jonathan 🙂
@JonathanDalton @Ricardo Bueno They both start with “Sa” and they’re both in California. Close enough… 😉
I know everyone commenting here works in different real estate markets, but I’m detecting a strange idea being proposed here … if I’m reading correclty, Listing Agents shouldn’t engage home buyers who contact them simply because it offers a veiled invitation to dual agency?
(I know this is off the beaten path a bit, but suffer me for a moment)
I think a simple disclosure, “I work exclusively on behalf of the seller to arrange a property sale in their best interests” should establish who you work for (which has been a practice I’ve followed for 10 years – and why I’ve made it a “Terms of Service” condition on our website when customers request appointments.
Consumers have made the decision a long time ago that if they want to see a property without worrying how to arrange 3 parties schedules (listing agent, buyer agent and customer) then they’ll cut to the chase.
Buyers aren’t as “weak and defenseless” as some have may them out to be in the comments in their advocacy for buyer representation … isn’t it the buyer’s decision to be represented by an agent?
And as @J Philip Faranda pointed out, your business practices with how you deal with customers will largely depend on the state you’re licensed in .. and one more reason why Brokers who represent Sellers should care how listing data is being presented on TruZillaRealtor.com because of their fiduciary obligation to their client.
After all … don’t let industry practices blind you to the business requirements your state expects from licensed professions (esp. real estate agents)
Wow this is really getting some great responses and comments. One thing I noticed was that Sandicor is going to limit syndication sites to 4 photos. Not really sure what I think about that. Sites like I have, Team Aguilar will be fine and I guess it gives us a little edge but again I don’t think this is the best option for our clients trying to sell their home. I don’t know but I am willing to adapt. I do love how I can work my tail off and compete in a market like San Diego and compete at a high level with some of the giant national sites who also have a strong presence in SD.
“Maybe we could cease & desist uploading photos of toilets? Particularly those images with the seat up?” LMAO
I had to post this listing I saw today:
http://www.ficklingofflorida.com/240635/1575-COUNTY-RD-65-BONIFAY-FL.html
This is a re-post from the GeekEstate blog, so I don’t have to write the whole thing over:
When my kids were a little younger, I used to read them a story about Little Red Riding Hood. Maybe you’re familiar with it? My favorite excerpt of the story goes something like this: “Grandma, my… what big ears you have”; “Grandma, my… what big eyes you have”; and finally “Grandma, my what big teeth you have”. Grandma, of course, in this analogy is Diverse Solutions/Zillow.
You get the idea. Saying “Yes” to Diverse Solutions (I.e. “The Trojan Horse” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T… ) in any MLS is indeed inviting Zillow into your living room. Zillow is not “one of us”, as Brad from Zillow would like you to believe. Zillow is a publicly held company who’s sole purpose is to generate revenue for their shareholders. Is this bad? NO! But they are not going to do it by stealing traffic from my personal website (through sneaky Zillow widget links and other tactics), funneling accurate, timely MLS data back to Zillow under the guise of Grandma (oops, I mean Diverse Solutions), or by getting me to spend all my efforts blogging on THEIR site and utilizing their “FREE” tools to better assist me (thus generating even MORE traffic and Google juice to THEIR site).
Fellow Realtors… ZILLOW/DIVERSE SOLUTIONS WANTS YOUR TRAFFIC! How dumb does Zillow think I am? No Zillow, I don’t want your stupid badge on my site, I don’t want your FREE tools, I don’t want your silly widgets on my site which link back to yours, and I am definitely not going to encourage my visitors, to “get on Zillow”. Why? Because I am not interested in Zillow SELLING these same clients back to me, or worse – my competition, so they can in turn tell their shareholders how profitable the quarter was. If you need evidence on how effective the Trojan Horse strategy is, look no further than the Mediterranean, and ask the city of Troy if they would have brought the “Gift” from the Greeks into their city again if they could do it all over.
If this becomes a battle over MLS data, my money is on the National Assoc. of Realtors. (After all, it’s their data, and it’s membership data at that). There are well over 1 Million Realtors who have the right to control this data, and the the last time I checked, Zillow was not one of these members. This is a war Zillow/Diverse Solutions CANNOT win. I believe Zillow paid somewhere in the vicinity of $7 Million for 5000+ Diverse Solution customers. It’s sounds like if the Realtors stand up for themselves, Zillow will be explaining to their shareholders a $7 Million purchase which went awry, for reasons they did not take into consideration.
Greg Broderick, Realtor – Bend Oregon
>DIVERSE SOLUTIONS IS ZILLOW – ZILLOW IS DIVERSE SOLUTIONS<
@BendOregonRealEstate I’m not convinced Diverse Solutions is the devil incarnate just because Zillow acquired them. But you are entitled to your opinion.
I have to admit though that I do see some irony in that you came on my blog, and violated my blog comment policy by using keywords for your commenter name. Aren’t you kind of trying to get a little “Google Juice” from my site? Sort of what you are accusing Zillow of doing, no?
@Jay Thompson Zillow is a talented group of savvy marketers who strategically seek to gain access to nearly every MLS in the nation, under the guise of Diverse Solutions. ZILLOW LACKS TIMELY, ACCURATE MLS DATA. We as agents have known this, and the general public is now experiencing this firsthand. DIVERSE SOLUTIONS IS THE BRIDGE WHICH GAPS THIS DATA DEFICIENCY FOR ZILLOW.
Since Zillow’s chance of gaining membership to MLS organizations nationwide is just as likely as me snapping a color photo of Bigfoot riding the Loch Ness Monster, Zillow cunningly turned to – and subsequently purchased – Diverse Solutions to solve this data deficiency. Diverse Solutions has 5000+ agents nationwide. It only takes one agent which is a DS customer to gain access to ALL the local MLS data!!! I gotta say… the guys at Zillow are absolutely genius!
As I recently mentioned on another real estate blog: “I would like to see a show of hands from all the Realtors out there… which one of you would openly invite ZILLOW to become a member of YOUR local MLS organization”? Ohhh, but let me guess, because we throw a warm and cozy term in there called “Diverse Solutions” this makes it better? It’s the same thing people! Zillow is Diverse Solutions – Diverse Solutions is Zillow. “Little Red riding Hood and the Big Bad Wolf, the Trojan Horse, Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing”. I’m sorry, I just cannot make it any simpler.
In regards to your comment Jay, the only thing I find Ironic is that Diverse Solutions pay’s you to advertise on your blog, and you both use and are supporting their product in this debate. I would naturally expect you are biased towards them.
My Name is Greg Broderick. I am a Real Estate broker in Bend, Oregon. I have provided your blog with thought provoking, worthy, and yes opposing comments which only strengthen the likely hood that a visitor will return. The reason my name comes up as Bend Oregon Real Estate is because this is how it is registered with Livefyre. As an experienced blogger, you know for a fact that I am not here for Google Juice, based on the sheer passion I have put into my comments.
Thank you for allowing me to post an opposing view on your blog. I respect you as a professional, and hope that each and every one of us is better at the end of a spirited discussion then when we first arrived.
@BendOregonRealEstate @Jay Thompson
Yes Greg you have been very passionate about your views on this here and other Blogs that I have followed you on.
We are in agreement on the majority of the points you make against Listing syndication with aggregators and I too believe the best method of syndication of listings is through the Local MLS Boards.
Please feel free to continue your rant on my modest article at http://www.ultimateidx.com/blog/mls-listing-syndication-war-rages/
As my Mother would say, “Sunlight is the best disinfectant” so yes, “Hats Off” to Jay for allowing all points of view here on this issue!
This post started as a quick comment about listing syndication and evolved into what you see here.
Listing syndication has been in the news lately with some brokerages and mls systems opting out or changing the way they deliver content. It seems there are many different opinions on the subject, here’s mine.
I have always syndicated my listings as much as possible, but that’s been my choice. Over the years, I’ve tried it all. Postlets, eproperty sites, virtual tours and websites that all syndicated my listings all over the web.
It is the safer road for agents and brokers to support giving away listing data to whoever will publish it on the Internet. After all, what real estate broker would want to support limiting consumer access to free information on an Internet blow torch like Jay’s site? Geez, I might end up on the news and have to defend my unpopular decision on camera. No doubt they would frame me as the bad guy broker trying to keep consumers in the dark for my own profit. There’s really no benefit is there?
After all, the majority of the general public has an extremely limited understanding of how the real estate business works. Many don’t know that they can or should use a buyer’s agent. Many think they will “save the commission” if they work with the listing agent. Many think their offer may be given more weight if they work with the listing agent. Many think a broker only has access to their own listings. Many just don’t know what they don’t know.
And sadly, some think a real estate broker has some sort of requirement to provide free information to whoever requests it and has no right to ask for anything in return. Some of you may believe that as well?
I’ve read some interesting comments on this blog along the lines of “as a listing agent, I owe it to my seller to advertise their house everywhere I can”. Respectfully, that is completely false. If that statement were true, I’d need to collect an upfront non refundable retainer in excess of $10,000 for each listing I took. I’d need to advertise my listings in every newspaper, magazine, postcard, signage, billboard and website that had a shot of producing a buyer. I don’t know too many agents and brokers who are still spending a ton on print advertising.
Why? Because it is very expensive and does not produce the phone calls and closed sales it used to.
As a business owner, I’ve found the same to be true with Trulia and Zillow. I currently advertise on Zillow and have advertised on Trulia in the past. But there is little bang for your buck in my opinion and I’ll be cancelling my Zillow deal soon. They simply package up the data we provide to them and sell it back to us at a profit. I’m not sure how that benefits the consumer or the average agent, but it’s a clever business model. Reminds me a lot of selling bottled water. Pump it out of the ground for free, repackage it and presto it’s somehow better than the original product”¦Not!
I suppose one could argue it provides greater exposure, but exposure to who? Most buyers who are ready, willing and able to buy a home will be visiting a lot of sites during the process. The sites they’ll stick to and continue to use are the sites that provide the accurate listing data. Currently those are agent and broker owned sites. Trulia and Zillow haven’t cornered the market in consumer loyalty on the web, but they’d sure like to.
Personally, I advertise my listings where it matters most, my mls and my real estate websites. With our mls idx policy, I am assured my listings are “syndicated” where they will be available to all the buyers, agents and brokers who matter. My listings are available on every competing brokerage’s website and are readily accessible to any member of our mls who has a legitimate pre approved buyer.
The mls idx is the single most powerful tool available to home sellers, buyers, agents and brokers hands down. It helps to sell homes quicker and for more money than any other form of advertising I am aware of. It allows home sellers using even the smallest of brokerages and individual agents to compete with the very largest. Should the public want to see the data, it’s already available with a quick google search of any area in the country. Those search results should be reliable. Participating broker’s websites using idx are as reliable as possible.
One of the problems for consumers that I see using third party aggregators is incorrect information. As the majority of the population doesn’t understand real estate, they don’t know who to trust. Rather than add value to the consumer, often these sites only provide confusion and foster mistrust with their inaccurate information.
Nothing like fielding a question from your client about what they think is a hot new listing but is really a 1 year old reo they found on Zillow is there?
I see little value for the consumer or the real estate industry to prop up sites like Trulia or Zillow by providing them data or idx feeds to cure their accuracy problems. With the exception of the “Zestimate” the services available on those sites are already happily provided by brokers and their agents on a daily basis.
It is interesting to me that some brokers and agents disagree with withholding any data from Trulia and Zillow. You already possess the greatest syndication tool available, your mls idx feed. If you input your listings correctly, publish beautiful pictures and counsel your sellers to price their home correctly for their motivation and market conditions, their home will most likely find a buyer in a reasonable time. Of course then the real work starts.
Folks you are running a business and part of running a business is making a profit. Zillow and Trulia are attempting to profit from your work, why aren’t you?
@BrettTousley well said and profoundly so. Comments on Jay’s post have been hot for over 3 days now and I hope he and other advocates for “broad exposure at any cost in the name of the consumer via TruZilla” can glean the gist of your point from your last paragraph … “folks you are running a business and part of running a business is making a profit. Zillow and Trulia are attempting to profit from your work, why aren’t you?”
@BrettTousley I agree. The central tenet of capitalism is value for value. I give you something of value, you give me something of value in return. ZTR are giving us nothing OF VALUE in return for our listings data, descriptions and photos. Nothing.
@BrettTousley
I couldn’t help it, I had to write a manifesto myself: http://www.granthammond.com/2012/featured/great-mls-listing-syndication-war/
Grant, I like your manifesto much better than mine. You actually took the time to research your post. Mine was shot from the hip.
I very much like your point that we have no need for third party aggregators. Zillow and Trulia will most likely go the way of HouseValues in the coming years. Perhaps they too can get into website design to continue mission of selling our clients back to us? 🙂
@BrettTousley
Zillow and Trulia has spent a lot of money attempting to convince us that home buyers and sellers cannot live without them. The truth of the matter is that they are already obsolete if all local MLS associations would wake up and make the same decisions San Diego and Denver made.
@BrettTousley
My favorite was, “I see little value for the consumer or the real estate industry to prop up sites like Trulia or Zillow by providing them data or idx feeds to cure their accuracy problems. With the exception of the “Zestimate” the services available on those sites are already happily provided by brokers and their agents on a daily basis.”
I agree the Agents/Brokers do a far better job for consumers on their local sites. The best method of syndication is through the Local MLS Boards with their Members on their Member’s websites.
As to the question about how many other MLS’s will do something similar?
With any luck, we will go live Friday after approval by MLS Committee and Board of Directors today.
We already had the Marketing Remarks field in place, and it already replaces Public Remarks in all RETS feeds if used. We need one tweak by FBS so that it does not affect RETS IDX feeds, otherwise we could do it today.
Keep in mind that we do NOT allow any listing broker or agent info in our IDX. Not so much as a “Courtesy of”. Marketing Remarks is for syndication only. We also think it will be fine to have buyer agent advertising next to the listing, but the feed will be clearly identify the listing agent if so desired.
As to limiting photos, I think the only way to make that work (for us) is to add functionality to let the listing agent/broker set the number to be sent if they wish to limit it. This would of course require custom programming.
Which MLS are you with Malcolm?
@GrantHammond Pocono Mountains Association of REALTORS. We are small but we data share with 7 other flexmls MLS’s in Northeastern PA.
@Malcolm Waring
Wonderful news. It’s refreshing to see a smaller MLS taking these necessary steps.
My favorite was, “I see little value for the consumer or the real estate industry to prop up sites like Trulia or Zillow by providing them data or idx feeds to cure their accuracy problems. With the exception of the “Zestimate” the services available on those sites are already happily provided by brokers and their agents on a daily basis.”
I agree the Agents/Brokers do a far better job for consumers on their local sites. The best method of syndication is through the Local MLS Boards with their Members on their Member’s websites.
Sandicor had the idea but I believe we may be the first to implement. It’s working right now and I posted the announcement this afternoon after testing the first listing yesterday.
@Malcolm Waring
Bravo Malcolm. Thank you for standing up for our intellectual property rights!
Interesting post. Sandicor is doing a much better job looking out for their members than many others.